Behind The Built Environment - Episode 17

David
Hello, I'm David Frise, Chief Executive of BESA. Welcome to Behind the Built Environment, the podcast where I delve into the major issues facing our industry through in depth conversations with key industry leaders. Join us as we explore the trends, challenges and innovations shaping the future of the built environment. Our guest today is Jon Vanstone, who is chair of the Industry Competence Committee under the building safety regulator, a pivotal role following the Grenfell tragedy.

He also chairs CERTAS and the National Home Improvement Council and has dedicated over 20 years to advancing standards across certification, compliance and installer professionalism. With honorary fellowships from CABE and the Institute of Construction Management, Jon's influence reaches across the industry from high level policy to boots on the ground installer. Today we're talking about what every business needs to know in this era of regulatory transformation.

David
Jon, welcome to the podcast.

Jon
Thank you for having me.

David
Glad you could make it. We always start off with five quick fire questions. Yes. No. Which is more difficult than you think. It's going to be okay. But it kind of sets the tone for the whole discussion. So here we go. Do you believe the industry now takes competence as seriously as compliance?

Jon
No.

David
Good start. Is the Gateway 2 process starting to deliver the kind of predictability the sector needs?

Jon
Yes.

David
Can a CSCS card alone be considered proof of competence?

Jon
No.

David
Are third party certification schemes adapting quickly enough to meet the demands of the new regulatory framework?

Jon
No.

David
Should anonymous reporting of qualification fraud be standard practise across all construction firms?

Jon
Yes.

David
You win the prize. Nobody's managed that before now. No. I'm looking at Jack, who's our producer. No, nobody has managed that. Great start. We also like to find out how did you end up sitting here today? You know, what career steps, what brought you here? I'm sure you weren't at school going, doing your A levels, going. What I really want to do is chair the Industry Competence Committee. How did you end up here?

Jon
Yeah, when I was at school I actually wanted to be a police officer. Then I changed to lawyer and then I decided I'm going to go into it and I worked my 20s in that field, network manager, bit of development. And then I got into this project to help sort out a certification body and that was over 20 years ago.

Jon
And in doing so I learned the regulation because any good IT professional should know what's the use of the system they're designing and just kept learning, got a bit obsessed with it all, decided the building regulation is actually quite interesting and went from there and just went through the industry designing systems, then advising on compliance. And then slowly, I was too old for it and quite young for compliance and certification, and I stayed there and just built through all that.

David
Great, thank you. So, the Industry Competence Committee, which rolls off the tongue, what is it and what does it do?

Jon
It's a statutory committee set up under the Building Safety Act, obviously, as you said in your intro in response to Grenfell, it's one of three statutory committees. You have the Building Advisory Committee, the Residence Panel and the Industry Competence Committee. Our role is to advise the regulator and industry on matters of competence.

Jon
It is aimed at driving competence, setting expectations the industry should achieve what we can expect and making sure that the overall system is robust.

David
So is it, by and large, the industry deciding what the competence standard should be?

Jon
No. Well, you're taking the regulation and saying, how do you meet it in a way that is a step up from what we have before. So embedding things like skills, knowledge, experience and behaviours into frameworks, making sure the guidance is there so industry can set up in a way that ensures that we don't get another tragedy like we had, and that moving forward, we are forever learning and improving.

David
Okay, and what are the most pressing competence gaps you see currently in the industry?

Jon
There's been a lot of coverage on capacity and skills and skills acquisition, but for me, it's behaviours. We still see things as a compliance gateway, as opposed to embedding proper competence management in systems. People aren't designing organisations in a way that ensures that competence management is at the heart of it. It's almost like we need to add this on.

Jon
And so I think culture, behaviours, making sure that we see things the right way, put residents at the heart. We adapt procurement. We aspire to things that are more than just financial.

David
What are the factors that you think are preventing that from really happening?

Jon
Yes, it does require cooperative working. You need to change the client as well as the industry side of it. The client sets the tone. So if the client does not value a robust structure ensuring competence and is more about speed and finances and making it as thin as possible, then that's what you'll deliver.

Jon
It is a whole system. Much as we're looking at all aspects within industry, we are starting to create guidance for the client side as well.

David
So what do you think the risks are for companies who are lagging behind?

Jon
There's obviously compliance risk and contractual risk. But I think the biggest risk coming is brand. Companies that aren't performing the way they should be are known. As you push more and more, it becomes more of a risk to trade with them.

Jon
You don't want that reputation of buyer beware. There's a few companies out there that have it already and that list will grow. Make sure you're on the right side of that.

David
John Van Stone, chair of the Industry Competence Committee. Thank you very much for your time.

Jon
Thank you, David.

David
Thank you for tuning in to Behind the Built Environment. If you enjoyed this episode, like, share and subscribe on your favourite podcast provider and don't forget to leave us a review. It really helps us reach more people across the industry. Until next time, I'm David Frise and this has been Behind the Built Environment. Goodbye.